Paradox 11 + Window 8.1.. Tablelookup problem

When trying to establish a table lookup thru restructure. I get the message paradox has stopped working.  I get a debug option and close option.. if I take debug.. the program shuts down.  Anyone know of a solution to this?

I did a bit of testing.. one thing a few of you mentioned, was Data moving around!  (Finding something).. I played with the regeistry .. I think possibly the registry gets changed and that COULD be some of the problem.

Data virtualization is an umbrella term used to describe any approach to datamanagement that allows an application to retrieve and manipulate data without requiring technical details about the data, such as how it is formatted or where it is physically located.  (definition on google)

I think the Cadet 1st year is on the right path there....

Also the Cadet suggested checking all files (I think) that was just to make sure nothing was corrupt..

He is taking a 1 step at a time approach.. 

Any changes to the mapping or pathing, and everything breaks ..????????????????  I am so behind this statement! so now.. where could that break exist? ..  

big common problem.. when lookup tables are in the same "work" folder, instead of a named alias, paradox saves the full path info. (I'd like to know more about this)... I gotta do some studying on alias.. never used it much at all.. some of it I have read created more of a complication..... If you spell out the path.. what problem could you have? 

paradox runs thru all the files in the folder, to test the lookup links first.. disconnected drives or an unresolved alias can cause a GP here (one big question here... could the registry play in this algorithm?)

let's say that you keep everything in one folder, and it is your generic default ":work:" folder.. not a specific path defined in a SetAliasPath, not set in the BDE.. just the generic File / Working Directory, you never mess with it

when you set a lookup table link, pick ":work:" as the folder to choose the lookup table from, then select the lookup table, it remembers the full path of ":work:" internally.. move everything, then try to open that master table.. you'll get the pop-up box that tells you the lookup table and/or memo file can't be found

when you define an alias, such as ":lookups:" or ":reports:", the CURRENT definition is what is used.. if you define "f:\pdoxdata\lookups" as your ":lookups:" alias, that's where it will look for those tables.. change the alias path to "g:\pdox\lkups", it'll look in the new location.. if you do have to change the path, you're only doing it in one place, and everywhere it sees the alias, it knows where to look

and yes, registry issues can always contribute to problems, but in the case of paradox, it's more likely the config file for the BDE.. the registry tells you where the BDE is, and which config file to use, by default, but..

you can change the config file to use, on the command line

you can over-ride some of the config file settings, on the command line

in the config file and/or in your app, drive mappings and aliases can be assumed, that have not been set

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Thanks for the explanation Steve...

.So lets say I move an application from one computer to another computer.. lets also say I keep the files in there respective locations.. ex(c:\electrical).. this is my private directory and working directory.. no aliases are used.. this is the setup on both computers.. do you see a problem here?

no, it's the same.. but if you move it to another machine, and that machine it's all sitting in c:\apps, or f:\electrical, or whatever, anything hard-coded will error out

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hi Jay,

I have had problems with this table lookup function and windows crshing paradox for years. Nevertheless I have been able to work every windows version since windows 3.0 and paradox for windows, with a varying degree of fustration ... and success.

Here what I guess is happening. Under the new windows recent version there is more virtualization of data storage and I think the crashing problem is linked to this feature. When there is a windows update I think data is moved and paradox is looking for it where it no longer is...

Here some "remedies" to aliviate the pain, it is not a cure.

Open all tables, empty the ones that have temp data, or that you no longer need the data for close them all again. If there are corrupt tables pls repair them. The table look up data to retrieve "should be" in the same directory of the table that looks for it. HOWEVER, most of the times it is not like that, mst of the systems built look for the data in OTHER directories, even othe network disks (as is my case).

So because of this also open all tables on the other directory, close them, write and delete, make paradox know where they are.

After this it will not crash again, until you move your files, or windows moves them... you can build a restore point when all is working and allway go back to it, if things get messy.

Hope it works for you

Regards

Manuel Amorim

Mozambique

Manuel.. thanks for the comments, welcome to the group.. for the benefit of all, I'd like to comment on a few of your points

> When there is a windows update I think data is moved and paradox is looking for it where it no longer is <

it is possible that newer Windows builds are using memory blocks differently than in the past, although that's highly unlikely, but a Windows update will never physically move your files.. if they were on \\drive\folder, they will still be on \\drive\folder

> Open all tables, empty the ones that have temp data, or that you no longer need the data for close them all again. If there are corrupt tables pls repair them. <

if you are opening and closing all of your tables, to trigger "corruption" messages, to tell you which tables have problems, that in itself is a problem.. most "corruption" problems are simple table/index sync issues, but if they are frequent or constant, there are external things to look at.. real file damage is another, more serious issue, especially if it doesn't go away after the first repair

also, the point of "temp tables" is that they are temporary.. the best course of action is to delete them when you're done with them, and re-create as needed..  more tables means more files in folders.. more files in folders means slower drive response time.. and having to work your way thru them, interactively, all the time

> The table look up data to retrieve "should be" in the same directory of the table that looks for it. HOWEVER, most of the times it is not like that, mst of the systems built look for the data in OTHER directories, even othe network disks (as is my case). <

big common problem.. when lookup tables are in the same "work" folder, instead of a named alias, paradox saves the full path info.. any changes to the mapping or pathing, and everything breaks

another common problem.. app links and aliases that are assumed to be there, when the app starts, but are not there.. as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, when you hit the Lookup tab, paradox runs thru all the files in the folder, to test the lookup links first.. disconnected drives or an unresolved alias can cause a GP here

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Have you verified the table structure, using TUtility?  My guess is that it is corrupt, causing the restructure to fail.

HTH,

Jim Moseley

No.. actually had not tried that.. I will.. but the interesting thing is.. I can do this on my Windows 7 machine.. the windows 8.1 machine on the other hand has a problem.. now to top it off.. I just purchased a Windows 10 machine.. and it works fine.. thanks for the suggestion.. I will investigate it.

As I had stated in my recent post.  Table Lookup is crashing paradox 11 on a Windows 10 machine.  I had purchased a labtop with windows 10.  NO PROBLEM.. once I got online (internet) and a few updates from Microsoft (etc..) and the problem has resurfaced.  Now my labtop does the same thing.. it crashes when :

1.)Open a table for restructure (NEW or OLD).

2.)Click on Table Lookup Tab

3.)Get dialog box saying Debug or Close Program. 

Anyone know why or know how to fix this problem?

As I had stated in my recent post.  Table Lookup is crashing paradox 11 on a Windows 10 machine.  I had purchased a labtop with windows 10.  NO PROBLEM.. once I got online (internet) and a few updates from Microsoft (etc..) and the problem has resurfaced.  Now my labtop does the same thing.. it crashes when :

1.)Open a table for restructure (NEW or OLD).

2.)Click on Table Lookup Tab

3.)Get dialog box saying Debug or Close Program. 

Anyone know why or know how to fix this problem?

when you hit Table Lookup in the Restructure box for the first time in a session, it runs thru every table in the folder, to be sure it can access it.. it's possible that one of the tables in the folder is corrupt, in a manner that causes the GP fault.. and yes, it's possible that a Windows update created the problem, too..

first off, is it a small enough folder that you can run thru all the tables?

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hey Steven,  first of all thank you so much for replying.  I tried your suggestion by creating a brand new folder (no files to start) I created a customer file with an auto increment key (long int) and another file to call it and test the lookup TAB again.... to no avail as soon as I hit the Lookup tab in table restructure, it crashes.  The only work around I have found so far is to start Windows 10 in protected mode.  So.. something is in conflict.. a dll undoubltly... When I have the time I will start eliminating possible files that are in conflict.  Maybe I'll be able to help some other poor soul with the same problem.. I did have a brand new lab top.. I kept telling myself.. don't hook it up to the internet to get any updates... I did.. It worked flawlessly before I did that.. now it has the same problem.. some update (I think) is causing the crash.  If you find it first.. let me know.. thanks again!

it's been one of those weeks, for all of us.. the machines are winning (sigh)

two other suggestions, try this on a copy of your tables.. 1) kill the auto-inc, change it to a regular integer field, see what happens.. 2) rebuild with the repair tool

it's the old Sherlock Holmes "eliminate what isn't" theory

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

re-reading your messages.. yes, I can see that this is all happening even when you make it all from scratch.. so yes, that points to something new and external.. it'll be a total PITA to pick a restore point and test that way, but that might be the only way to confirm it

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

I can tell you this... It was just recently that my lab top started in on this.. so I have a few things I am gonna be trying.. I have three possible culprits right off the bat.. one is joiong a home network.. two, printer related and the third antispam software.. thats where I will start.

good luck, let us know what you find out.. the problem, these days, is that the paradox community has gotten much smaller, and the communication much more scarce..

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

this thread is fine.. same topic.. if they're both the exact same build number, that should mean the exact same windows updates have been applied..

but it still doesn't tell us what's wrong (sigh)

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

I think were on a roll with this one though.. that is great.. another quick question while I am thinking about it.. does anyone know if the source code to paradox is/will be available?  I just checked my OS ver.. it is also 14393.693

> does anyone know if the source code to paradox is/will be available?

nope, never

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Nope/Never..?  So you mean there sitting on the source for Paradox.. it has bugs and no attempt is made to fix them or improve the system.. that doesn't make much sense.  Can you iterate on that a bit more.. how do you know Never?

Hello again,

I am getting ready for another approach, and will be happy to share...

Steve has provided my very significant assistance for more years than I care to mention. Here, we know that Steve is the "Commander," a designation that probably connotes assertive power and well informed influence. Perhaps it generates images like this:

But there is anothe meaning for the term. A "commander" is also a type of super large mallet used mostly in post and beam construction:

Mine is now sitting next to my desk...

All the best, and trying to remain optimistic,

Lothar

nah.. it just means I have the power to delete stuff :-)

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hi Steve,

To be a bit more  serious -

I've run my own business since the Lincoln administartion, and happen to be a Psychologist by trade.

In our office, in addition to my other roles, I am the IT guy...

We started using Paradox when our systems were all encased in wood.

Without the generosity of your assistance, we would have been forced to abandon our data management approach years ago.

I deeply appreciate all the help you  have provided me (and others) over these many years.

All the best (as I stand, and salute,)

Lothar

thank you !!

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hi again,

Given that I have two systems with the same WinVer display, and only one crashes Paradox, would it make any sense for me to re-install Paradox on the broken box?

If not that, might you have any other ideas I should experiment with?

Sincere thanks,

Lothar

it can't hurt to re-install.. might not help, but that would eliminate one possibility..

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hi again,

I just ran the routine to "Update the current installation" but the crash problem persists.

Might an uninstall + reinstall have any further benefit, or would that just be redundent?

Many thanks,

Lothar

technically, an update might not over-write a bad file.. but an un-install / re-install should be a clean install, as long as the un-install deleted everything

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hi Steve,

Tomorrow I will have a chance to do a clean install, but I have a question:

I can easily get rid of the folder(s) that the Paradox installation created, and can then re-install.

But, should I also be cleaning out modifications to the registry? If so, how is that best done?

Many thanks,

Lothar

generic answer - a real uninstall is supposed to remove your program, any files it put elsewhere, the registry entries, etc.. everything.. generically, that's what you want.. you don't know what is causing the problems

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hi Steve, the installation files I have do not include an un-install function, so might you tell me the best way to clean up the registry manually. I am fine with regedit, but would appreciate your suggestions about just what it is that I should be deletin' from the registry.

Thanks for any further help on this,

Lothar

I haven't touched a recent WP Suite disks in years.. the install/uninstall is still done at the Suite level, yes?

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hi Steve,

I am trusting my memory here...

When I originally installed Paradox on this system from the CD, it displayed options to install the various componants of the whole WP Office Suite. I clicked to install only Paradox.

Now, I see that when I scroll down to Paradox in my system's list of Apps, there is, indeed, an uninstall option. I had not noticed that until now because I had tried running the Paradox setup32.exe rather than looking at the list of apps.

In any case, as things now stand, I am not aware of having any access to the WP suite functionality from my system. I do have the original CD though, and so could approach the clean up in a few different ways.

What would you suggest to achieve the cleanest of the clean?

Thanks,

Lothar

well, if there's an uninstall option there, do it.. it might say "insert the CD" like some apps do, but probably not.. only way to know is to try it :-)

if you don't have the CD what do you have? the CD contents burned on the drive or a thumb drive? just curiousity, cuz many people burn the CD onto the server these days, then lock away the original CD

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hi Steve,

I have both the original CD, and a copy of it on my HD.

All the best, and I will keep you posted on these efforts,

Lothar

Hi Steve,

I just ran the Uninstall routine from my HD.

Next, I rebooted, and launched Paradox. I then launched the infostructure routine. But when I clicked on table lookup, as before, Paradox crashed immediately.

Another thing I will mention:

When I launched the new installation of Paradox, I was very surprised to see that all of my Alias information had been preserved. I had assumed that using the WP Office suite uninstall routine would have removed everything, but apparently not.

In any case, I still have the crash problem, and would certainly welcome any insight you, or others might come up with.

And please remember that there is always the second Commander option...

All the best,

Lothar

the uninstall does not delete the BDE, that's why your aliases are still there.. any chance one of the aliases is invalid?

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hi Steve,

I will try deleting the aliases to see if it corrects the problem, but let's remember that others started having the crash problem on the same day I noticed the problem.

More info soon,

Lothar

Hi Steve,

No joy yet...

I  just deleted all my aliases, closed Paradox, rebooted the system, and relaunched Paradox.

Then, I clicked infostructure for a table I had not experimented with at all. The instant I clicked on the TableLookup tab, Paradox crashed.

All the best, and thanks again,

Lothar

Hi Steve,

No joy yet...

I  just deleted all my aliases, closed Paradox, rebooted the system, and relaunched Paradox.

Then, I clicked infostructure for a table I had not experimented with at all. The instant I clicked on the TableLookup tab, Paradox crashed.

All the best, and thanks again,

Lothar

I touch a lot of apps, over the course of time.. I do info structure a gazillion times.. when I have need to hit the table lookup tab -

some apps, I get a lot of "val file out of date" messages

some apps, I get a lot of "can't open thumbs.db" messages

many apps, opening the lookups tab is slow

occasionally, paradox locks up on the lookups tab

technically, that's just anecdotal information.. but that's all I can offer here, unfortunately..

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

You might also.. if you can.. consider trying a system restore point.. If you have recently add a driver or noticed that you just updated windows.. etc.. etc.. This might point out the culprit.. try to think what you did right before this all started.

Hi Jay,

Part of the problem is that I might go for months without opening the info structure, or re-structure functions.

So, the unfortunate reality is that I can't see a way to know when this problem "started." I only know when I first noticed it, and that was two days ago.

All the best,

Lothar

Jay.. Borland licensed Paradox to Corel.. Borland fully owns the rights to the BDE.. Borland fully deprecated the BDE in 2002, and Corel concurrently ceased development of Paradox.. Corel was actually in the early stages of what Paradox 10 might have been, at that point in time..

Paradox 11 is Paradox 10 with the SPs included.. and that's all it will ever be.. every Word Perfect Suite release since then, is the same thing.. any functionality differences are external, and reflect changes in interaction with Paradox, not changes to Paradox itself..

sure, Borland will sell the rights, if somebody gives them a gazillion dollars.. but it won't happen, because there is no longer a viable, fruitful market.. we are remnants, we are not a market.. it would cost millions to re-assemble a development team, re-assess the code of the BDE and Paradox, create a development plan, implement the plan, test it, market it.. "never" is the appropriate term, really

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Paradox is still to me a very basic.. POWERFUL.. language that combines even some of the BASIC aspects of programming today.  It was ahead of its time in some respects.

Ok.. got my labtop to work again by restore to earlier version.. also I downloaded a few utilities from Microsoft.(ProcessMonitor & ListDlls).. this is gonna take a bit of digging.. but I think I am on to something. OK.. were running windows 10 build: 10240.... something else I have noticed is I use Malwarebytes... it is currently not active after the restore.. Now..I have saved report from the ProcessMonitor and also have copied the registry as is.. but I don't know how to get it to you guys.. need a little help there.

Steve... if you want to give me your email..I could send em to you?

sorry, Jay, don't know what I can glean from those reports.. the monitor thing, I've never seen.. the registry, I'd be hunting for "paradox", just like you.. to totally clear the registry stuff, in theory, uninstall the BDE too, if there's a way to do it..

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

UPDATE.... Without doing an update to the system... right back to the same problem on next attempt to hit the tab for table lookup.. its got to be a registry key being removed.. I went back thru it with regedit and did not find a previous find of type HKCU entry.. there were more of them the first time when it was working.

For now... a sure shot to get the table lookup to work is start your machine in SAFE MODE

Hi all,

Seems that the in the Windows 10 19041.672 build even SAFEMODE doesn't give an escape for this problem anymore. Anyone who knows a solution other then dusting of an old Windows 7 laptop?

Kind regards,

Peter

A quick update, but still hoping to get your replies for other solutions!

The workaround I now use is by creating a fieldstructure table with the enumfieldstructure() method. Changing the Loopup fields in that tabe and creating a new table based on the changed table does the trick for restructuring the lookups.

Not interactively by using the standard dialog screens, but it works fine.

Therefore my conclysion is that it is not a problem to get or define field lookups. It is the actual lookup dialog screen that triggers the crash. Probably caused by the file/folder view (aliasses?) that not matches the current Windows 10 system criteria.

Was worried at first, but now relieved that there is workable solution and that the lookups itself will not cause a GPF problem. Fingers crossed that this will stay a long time.

Kind regards, Peter

I'm using p9 and p10 most places, not p11.. when you retruct or infostruct and hit lookups tab, it has to go thru every table in the folder and validate all the lookup and valcheck links, before it will show you the results for the tabvle you're working on

occasionally, it blows out on me, but I have never had a consistent issue like yours, nor have I seen anyone else with that consistent problem

without going thru the weeds of a four-year-ago thread.. one table? all tables? have you rebuilt the problem table(s)? large/small directory? multiple workstations?

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Thanks for replying!

It is not related to the tables itzelf. It crashes always and on every table, existing or new. 

Even if I use a clean working directory, create the first table in that directory and hit the lookup tab in the restructure dialog screen the program crashes.

And now also in Windows SAFEMODE what was a good workaround before.

Kind regards, Peter

I'll keep that in mind, but like I said, that's a totally unique issue, AFAIK.. the buglist shows an error in p9 when the table name is over 21 char.. fixed in an SP

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hello again,

A bit of good news on this situation:

I just updated Win 10 to build 14393.969, launched Paradox, and then Info Structure.

The Table Lookup function worked properly...!

All the best,

Lothar

awesome.. thanks for the info.. I'n sure there will be others who find the same good result, once they push that update !!

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Hi Steven,

I had dedicated one of our office systems to our use of Paradox when we needed the Table Lookup functionality, and had it using a pre-failure version of Windows 10. I had disabled the Windows Update service to keep things stable on that one box.

Knowing that I had an image that functioned, I thought to give the newest Win Update a try, and, by happy accident, all is working well... Dumb luck, but certainly good news.

We still do have the odd mystery of my two systems running the same version of Win 10, one with Paradox happy, and the other with the problem we have been discussing, but, I do hope that my experience with the current update will be of use to others.

All the best, and thanks yet again for all your kind help,

Lothar

Hey all.. been coding like a raped ape, Paradox still lives.. My table lookup has been working fine for the past year now.. but that information I am sure will come in handy for someone.. hope all are well.. and thanks for keeping me in the loop!!

Same here.

I will install paradox on another, but clean laptop with the same specifications. Maybe the crashes are device specific. But is basically the same problem as described in this tread.

Still going strong with Paradox. Using it for my own business as CRM and for running BMX events in several countries, including European and World Championships with live TV coverage, live results publication and livestream graphics. Tried some years ago to start with remake/conversion into MS Access, but never got going because Paradox still works fine and (pretty) stable. Especially (Pdox11) Runtime still runs without any hassle.

Let us keep it alive as long as possible!

Kind regards, Peter

Installed Paradox freshly on a similar machine with the 18363.1049 w10 build.

Using the lookup tab in new table or restructure table worked without any problem/programm crash.

Kind regards, Peter

I have finally cought the problem. It is not a direct Win10 update or buildversion problem.

For the table lookup dialog Paradox is scanning "This PC" for all the links in the current user folders like Documents, Music, Desktop, Pictures, Videoa, etc. If there is a media player link or a "dead" link in that folder, like a networkshare that is not running, the dialog crashes without message.

So, don‘t add any other links to the standard links in "This PC" otherwise Table lookup will crash.

In safe mode (without network) there is less change of crashing, but it still can crash if the actual user has a "dead" shortcut to a network folder.

I am relieved that this is solved because I had no real other issues for the last years.

Kind regards, Peter

I'll repeat my comments from the newsgroup, we have a different audience here

first, you should be using p11 0676, not 0411.. probably minor, if at all, but it's totally external

second, I'm not aware of it testing anything "non-paradox".. it's testing that every table is valid, every linked table is valid, and every val file is valid

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN